News on L98 A2

[omalley]

Anyway, as my cadets never need to load magazines while under fire or simulated fire do you mind awfully if I ignore the time criteria? It is of no relevance to us.

Ah yes, "I don't like it so I'm going to ignore it" good drills

and rushing a drill is not going to enhance safety, is it

Yes because putting rounds into a magazine is only one minor slip up away from total disaster!

[yorkshire-lad]

So, i aint been on this thread for a while. Ii come for a look and to see whats going on and i find this.

I must be seeing things because, what i see is you lot arguing over cadets putting some rounds into a mag under time conditions...

[DRILL PIG]

Originally Posted by SnideRider

anyone got the skill at arms test for this? i mean our county doesn't have them yet but as a sgt i thought it would be good to learn it before we get them?

Just had a look in Pam 21c it has the WHT in the back. (5-17) although this refers to the L85 A2 which has a change lever fitted, so it is a bit confusing, other wise the WHT is the same.

[incubus]

Originally Posted by omalley

Ah yes, "I don't like it so I'm going to ignore it" good drills

Not quite; more like "it is not relevant to Air Cadet weapon operations so do you mind if we ignore the unnecessary time criterion and get on with producing safe, competent firers?"

Originally Posted by omalley

Yes because putting rounds into a magazine is only one minor slip up away from total disaster!

Ooh! Do explain how! Go on...

Magazine filling is an important and relevant part of the WHT.
Filling it within what is a tight time limit as a "pass or fail" element of the entire test is another matter altogether and is unnecessary at this level.

[incubus]

Originally Posted by tankspanker

Sorry mate, but regardless of how relevant you consider it to be, tests are tests and rules are rules.

That may be so, but I'm afraid you are missing the point.

All decisions need to be justifiable and all procedures can be changed if there is a case for doing so. I am proposing that the current WHT is flawed and should be changed. There are areas of Pam5c which are also flawed and which would benefit from revision.

The manuals aren't perfect and in some cases they are anything but.
Just because we are stuck with the current edition does not meant that they are perfect nor that they won't be improved.

Making those points here is just for the purposes of discussion. The same things are being proposed through more official channels but as always the fear is that the army's idea of "purple" operations is "me me me" so we all have to pander to the lowest common denominator.

[Private Murphy]

Originally Posted by christof30

Cadetism, we havent had the weapon five minutes and people are already just running the tests how they feel.

I wouldnt say cadetism, since currently only the CTT are teaching in our area.

[Harry Flashman]

I note with mild amusement the number of 'holier than thou' posts about members voicing their opinions on the test - in particular mag filling.

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has written "I'm going to ignore that bit", they've simply expressed a 'slightly' contentious opinion (which the 'holier than thou' posters are very well known for).

For God's sake, stop being so sanctimonious and allow others the freedom that you so often award yourselves!

[jimmyb896]

...and of course, you can sit on an internet forum and moan about it, or you can - shock! horror! - suggest an amendment to the Pam by writing to the SO3 (who is just about to hand over to a R SIGNALS officer and a might good chap he is too) or to the SO2 who I am sure will take your concerns on board.

I mean, who knows, if you all wrote in, the Pam might get amended!

Who said the Army wasn't a democracy?

[oh_bugger]

Originally Posted by jimmyb896

Who said the Army wasn't a democracy?

I seem to recall that as a young private one particurly unpleasant RSM said exactly that to me, he may however have used slightly ruder words !

All about the state of my lightweights and jumper.

[Harry Flashman]

I believe that pamphlets even give an address to write to if you wish to submit amendments - somewhere in the first few pages?

[jimmyb896]

It certainly does...

ACI
Cadet Training Centre
Frimley Park
Camberley
Surrey
GU16 7HD

[christof30]

Originally Posted by Private Murphy

I wouldnt say cadetism, since currently only the CTT are teaching in our area.

I can see what you mean however i was referring to the term in a general sense as in 10 different ways for the same drill cdepending on whos teaching it.

[christof30]

Originally Posted by Harry Flashman

I note with mild amusement the number of 'holier than thou' posts about members voicing their opinions on the test - in particular mag filling.

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has written "I'm going to ignore that bit", they've simply expressed a 'slightly' contentious opinion (which the 'holier than thou' posters are very well known for).

For God's sake, stop being so sanctimonious and allow others the freedom that you so often award yourselves!

1: Thou shalt not pointeth thy weapon at thy nieghbour even if the burning bush tells thou to do so.